Is there a single London massage shop that does HE that is not Thai or Chinese

[wombat42]

?

[kuck]

External Link/Members Only Run by a Sri Lankan/Indian woman.

[Fredbone]

Yes

[sonyvaio]

Yes, there are several that spring to mind that are mostly EE

[wombat42]

What is the reason why British girls have exited the market since the old sauna and massage days ? Sure many of them did not have the massaging skills that Thai or Chinese have now but why couldnt they just learn ? In sauna and massage days British girls usually just fumbled around for abt 15 minutes then offered HE, while at least with Thai or Chinese now you usually get a fairly decent massage normally for a full half an hour or hour plus HE.

[LLPunting]

Seriously? Your last 3 threads?

Are you fucking Ichabod Crane?

These aren't London questions, these should be in UKPunting.

[wombat42]

Seriously? Your last 3 threads?

Are you fucking Ichabod Crane?

These aren't London questions, these should be in UKPunting.

I am focusing on London right now and wd like to visit any non Thai or Chinese massage shops in London. There are obviously explicit sex establishments say in Manchester and Bristol that have girls of various nationalities such as EE but the massage element is downplayed or done away with completely. I dont think London has any explicit sex establishments like that anyway which have shop signs and publicised address.

[Baxter63]

As LLP says. No comment on the info?

https://www.ukpunting.com/index.php?topic=233371.0

 

[WARSZAWA16]

The general short and simple answer would probably be yes but they won't be anywhere near as good. To use your example, Thai and Chinese girls seem to have an almost vocational aptitude to massage (etc.) that, say, EE and UK girls generally don't. That's been my experience for what it's worth anyway.

[Hobbit]

The general short and simple answer would probably be yes but they won't be anywhere near as good. To use your example, Thai and Chinese girls seem to have an almost vocational aptitude to massage (etc.) that, say, EE and UK girls generally don't. That's been my experience for what it's worth anyway.

 That would be a problem if you don’t find Chinese or Thai girls attractive.

[scutty brown]

What is the reason why British girls have exited the market since the old sauna and massage days ? Sure many of them did not have the massaging skills that Thai or Chinese have now but why couldnt they just learn ? In sauna and massage days British girls usually just fumbled around for abt 15 minutes then offered HE, while at least with Thai or Chinese now you usually get a fairly decent massage normally for a full half an hour or hour plus HE.

To a large extent British owned parlours and girls have been forced out of the inner city by threats from the EE and Chinese gangs that now dominate the market. Most big-city parlours are linked to organised crime, they're good for laundering drug money and that business is becoming increasingly foreign controlled - the Brits are "encouraged" to leave. No one wants to fuck around with the Russians, Albanians or Triads........  And of course those gangs use women they can control, so that means trafficked foreigners, not Brits

[Dead Wood]

Some observations from in and around Soho.

There are many, many massage places here.  And I am not referring to walk ups.  My understanding of these places - from a bit of personal experience (I'm more of a ‘shagger’ than a ‘rub and tugger’), from what others have told me, and what I have read on here - is that they all offer the classic happy ending massage.

The ethnicity of these places does intrigue me, and consequently I think the OP’s question is perhaps misplaced, as I think it is not as straightforward as his question implies.  I assume that if you run a massage place in London, of whatever sort, you will constantly be looking for people to work in the parlour – after all, ‘wank burn out’ must be an occupational hazard - and in recent years, since Tony Blair took down the barriers, the Rom hordes will be snapping up all the vacancies?  Bit like in Pret a Manger? 

Places like the White Lily, and Soho Remedies in Rupert Street have a definite EE bias in the girls who work there, but there is often a much older Asian 'Mama San' type hustling at the entrance.  The same for the more obviously Chinese places in the Little Newport Street area.  Then there are the classic 100% Thai places like Vavi Thai Massage on Rupert Street, which are totally staffed by Thai girls.  And then those Chinese herbal medicine joints, where the herbs are just a front for darker deeds.  Again, these seem to be staffed by a range of young EE girls as well as Asian girls.  I go to one in Cricklewood which has a Chinese front complete with Mama Aan, and EE girls administering the ‘bishop bashing’.

[wombat42]

I was in Soho on Saturday and noticed some of the places you mentioned such as White Lily and Soho Remedies. Are they all worth visiting ?

[sparkus]

The Cricklewood place much reviewed on here has mainly non-Chinese staff ie EE, Italian, Spanish, Jamaican and Indian.

The two Wentworth Street shops have EE staff and you can ask for them rather than Chinese.

Lora has a room in a shop in Leytonstone and is Romanian without the usual negative associations.

[sparkus]

I was in Soho on Saturday and noticed some of the places you mentioned such as White Lily and Soho Remedies. Are they all worth visiting ?

Be sure to pay a visit to your bank manager first.

[Titti Tatti]

To a large extent British owned parlours and girls have been forced out of the inner city by threats from the EE and Chinese gangs that now dominate the market. Most big-city parlours are linked to organised crime, they're good for laundering drug money and that business is becoming increasingly foreign controlled - the Brits are "encouraged" to leave. No one wants to fuck around with the Russians, Albanians or Triads........  And of course those gangs use women they can control, so that means trafficked foreigners, not Brits

I always enjoy your posts on these matters..and of course they are impossible to disprove...but...

What have Russians and Albanians got to do with this?  Do they control all the EE nations girls? And how do you explain all the Thai competition?

 I've had over 100 women tug me off in London and despite some poor command of English, I've never suspected any of them as being trafficked. Not so sure re one Chinese flat of WG's I visited in Stratford, so I don't dismiss the possibility that I've been a party to this. If I believed you, I'd cease my participation immediately.

As I say impossible to disprove but without links and some reference to evidence, I'll be be sprinkling a little sodium chloride around as I read them.

[LLPunting]

I always enjoy your posts on these matters..and of course they are impossible to disprove...but...

What have Russians and Albanians got to do with this?  Do they control all the EE nations girls? And how do you explain all the Thai competition?

 I've had over 100 women tug me off in London and despite some poor command of English, I've never suspected any of them as being trafficked. Not so sure re one Chinese flat of WG's I visited in Stratford, so I don't dismiss the possibility that I've been a party to this. If I believed you, I'd cease my participation immediately.

As I say impossible to disprove but without links and some reference to evidence, I'll be be sprinkling a little sodium chloride around as I read them.

You may avoid the stereotypically shoddy brothels and parlours with a revolving door of multiple young girls but do not think that the organised lot aren't running/controlling tidier/cleaner flats and shops too with girls who may be more complicit or indoctrinated.   Trafficking is only one aspect.  Girls recruited here can be sucked into this too, so whilst not trafficked they may be coerced.
You may have been smart enough to pick 100 of the many free agents but there are many more in controlled areas/territories.
Organised Gangs only fight each other if there's not enough to go round in their patch/business interests.  Indie shops/flats can spring up anywhere and some/many may be pressed for payments to avoid trouble but I wouldn't be surprised if they're left to their own devices if they're not treading on toes.  The cops may be overstretched but the gangs won't want to attract undue attention.

[sparkus]

When I've Googled either shop mobiles or those of staff, I've found a number of ads trying to recruit Chinese staff to work in them. This suggests that there's no coercion at play in that segment at least.

Two shop owners have told me they'd run 100 per cent Chinese operations if they could, but can't get the staff so have to employ EE to make up the numbers. One said it was bad for business as surly EE staff skimping on extras doesn't lead to repeat custom.

As stated in a number of reviews, the Chinese tend to move between shops on different days. I don't bother with EE unless they're indies.

[LLPunting]

When I've Googled either shop mobiles or those of staff, I've found a number of ads trying to recruit Chinese staff to work in them. This suggests that there's no coercion at play in that segment at least.

Two shop owners have told me they'd run 100 per cent Chinese operations if they could, but can't get the staff so have to employ EE to make up the numbers. One said it was bad for business as surly EE staff skimping on extras doesn't lead to repeat custom.

As stated in a number of reviews, the Chinese tend to move between shops on different days. I don't bother with EE unless they're indies.

Interesting, we've all met a fair number of surly or otherwise less than adept or appealing Chinese women working as SPs.  Chinese often try to overcharge for extras but may be slightly more willing to accept less, not that the quality of service is consistently better than girls from other nations.
Hmmm,  I suppose it's more likely that a girl who works from several disperate venues during the week is independently mobile and so could be a free agent, but then again she could be being dropped off by handlers...
Guess the only way to know is to either surveil the place for the comings and goings...

[scutty brown]

I always enjoy your posts on these matters..and of course they are impossible to disprove...but...

What have Russians and Albanians got to do with this?  Do they control all the EE nations girls? And how do you explain all the Thai competition?

Albanians have been a growing problem for years, for instance this press report from 2002
External Link/Members Only
or this from 2001
External Link/Members Only
its got worse since, ehere's a book review from 2016
External Link/Members Only


You've got to assume that in many cases the apparent ownership nationality of a brothel or parlour isn't the real beneficial ownership..........the Albanians are good at management and control, but prefer to hide their involvement. They have a reputation for good "quality control" from a punters point of view - but merciless violence if anything upsets their business, such as independent minded girls



from External Link/Members Only

"..........Vice squad officers estimate that "Albanians now control more than 75 per cent of the country's brothels and their operations in London's Soho alone are worth more than £15 million a year." They are said to be present in every big city in Britain as well as in many smaller ones including Telford and Lancaster, after having fought off rival criminals in turf wars. Associate groups within the organizations will also hide their criminal activities within restaurants, bars, and clubs in an attempt to remain undercover.
Albanian gangsters were also involved in the largest cash robbery in British crime history, the £53 million Securitas heist in 2006.
According to the Scottish Crime and Drug Enforcement Agency (SCDEA), Albanian mafia groups have muscled in on the drug and vice trades within the Scottish underworld. The SCDEA notes that Albanian mafia groups have established a foothold in arms and drugs trafficking in Scotland.
Albanian mafia in the UK is heavily involved in prostitution and together with Turkish mafia control more than 70% of prostitution market in London.............."

[sparkus]

As far as I was aware, the Albanians have been muscling in on the sex trade since the 90s, when they were involved in numerous Balkan wars and their refugee consequences. I've lost count of the number of Albanian WGs and strippers I've met who've claimed to be 'Italian'. I believe there was a film with one Liam Neeson about it...

I was visiting several East London brothels about a decade ago and over time I sussed the security were always the same between them and the WGs always either Latinas or Indian. I was a bit uneasy about this but one day in a completely unconnected more typical brothel (run by a matriarch) I came across a WG I'd walked from months earlier at one of those places (I didn't walk from her that time and was glad I didn't as she was class). I asked her why she wasn't working at the other place anymore and she said she'd been given the heave-ho as she was mature and not getting picked much for punters! She said it was a popular set of brothels to work from for the others as the pay was comparatively decent compared to where she was working now.

The 'Bonnie and Clyde' operation in East London which was busted by the police and made it into the Daily Mail, both police and media seemed incredulous that the WGs were so positive about their employers (or that there was no coercion). Possibly as once a woman decides to become a WG then what she needs is a good supply of clients rather than sitting around all day staring into her mobile?

[Titti Tatti]

To a large extent British owned parlours and girls have been forced out of the inner city by threats from the EE and Chinese gangs that now dominate the market. Most big-city parlours are linked to organised crime, they're good for laundering drug money and that business is becoming increasingly foreign controlled - the Brits are "encouraged" to leave. No one wants to fuck around with the Russians, Albanians or Triads........  And of course those gangs use women they can control, so that means trafficked foreigners, not Brits

Thank you for taking my comments seriously and attempting to  put some meat on the bones of your argument. But so far your evidence relates to Albanian activity in prostitution 20 years ago.

This thread is about Wank palaces which are dominated in Soho and  the uk by Chinese and Thai management and where EE's are seemingly regarded as 2nd rate employees who give poor service.

You mentioned Russians, why?

You mentioned British owned parlours, but the articles are old and refer to Maltese selling out (incidentally the comments below the articles all say the Maltese were already moving out into legit businesses).

Several times on here you've implied you have special knowledge, but here you are just slinging lots of different kinds of mud in the hope some sticks.

I've had my share of beautiful bored young EE's, but wouldn't trafficked girls be forced to include kissing? And as a father of daughters, I like to think I'd be able to tell some one less than 20? ( I realise  It's possible I'm naive here). No doubt trafficking happens, but I can't see it evidence of it in places I walk in off the street in east London and the west end. As the on going massage thread shows, there is some semblance of a stable staff in these joints which doesn't sit well with the image of non English speaking trafficked girls being moved around on a daily basis.


So as I said it's all very interesting, but your case of ' to a large extent' and 'most' remains not proven. I will continue to be a wary, but guilt free, customer.

[LLPunting]

Thank you for taking my comments seriously and attempting to  put some meat on the bones of your argument. But so far your evidence relates to Albanian activity in prostitution 20 years ago.

This thread is about Wank palaces which are dominated in Soho and  the uk by Chinese and Thai management and where EE's are seemingly regarded as 2nd rate employees who give poor service.

You mentioned Russians, why?

You mentioned British owned parlours, but the articles are old and refer to Maltese selling out (incidentally the comments below the articles all say the Maltese were already moving out into legit businesses).

Several times on here you've implied you have special knowledge, but here you are just slinging lots of different kinds of mud in the hope some sticks.

I've had my share of beautiful bored young EE's, but wouldn't trafficked girls be forced to include kissing? And as a father of daughters, I like to think I'd be able to tell some one less than 20? ( I realise  It's possible I'm naive here). No doubt trafficking happens, but I can't see it evidence of it in places I walk in off the street in east London and the west end. As the on going massage thread shows, there is some semblance of a stable staff in these joints which doesn't sit well with the image of non English speaking trafficked girls being moved around on a daily basis.


So as I said it's all very interesting, but your case of ' to a large extent' and 'most' remains not proven. I will continue to be a wary, but guilt free, customer.

You'd make an awful Liam Neeson but a great ostrich

[sparkus]

You'd make an awful Liam Neeson but a great ostrich

He doesn't have skills?

[Dead Wood]

As the on going massage thread shows, there is some semblance of a stable staff in these joints which doesn't sit well with the image of non English speaking trafficked girls being moved around on a daily basis.

The soho joints that I know best have had the same staff for years.  One has a little gang of young EE girls, one of whom I know for definite has been there for at least four years.  Some of the others come and go, and then come back again.  And as for the Asian 'mama sans' - again, same faces for years.  Lots of chatting, and communal cigarette smoking in the street.  It's all rather bucolic.

[Oh la la]

I don’t believe trafficking is common in massage places. Why would a girl limit her services and haggle about any level of extras if she was coerced and someone else took the money?

[scutty brown]

I don’t believe trafficking is common in massage places. Why would a girl limit her services and haggle about any level of extras if she was coerced and someone else took the money?

restricted services (i.e. no full service) reduces the chances of losing their licence. Haggling means more money and reduces the chances of the girl being punished for not earning her daily quota