The End of Adultwork? - Today's Prime Minsister's Questions

[DragonAgeInquisition]

Hi All,

After watching live updates of PMQs this lunchtime I was quite shocked to read the following (link to full article at bottom)...

"A Home Office review of sex work could provide evidence to justify law banning buying sex"
"May says the Home Office has provided funds for a study into sex work in England and Wales. An evidence base is vital before the law changes. This review will be concluded next spring"

I believe I am right to be more than concerned about this as quite recently the US sites like backpage and craigslist have been shut down. I think it would be a great shame if awork and other similar sites would follow the same fate. Immediately I began to think of alternatives that would be convenient and discreet, I for one would not visit a brothel on the off chance it get raided (unlikely, i know).

I know many of you such as myself absolute can't afford to be hassled by police etc due to work and/or family. I'm just wondering how real this malarkey is...regardless I will be trying to get through as many of my hotlist of 60 before the spring of 2019 just incase it were to go down at least i can say i had my share... 

Both political parties adopt the same stance so i do have a genuine anxiety over the matter and the lack of any real viable alternatives (move to Oz/NZ)?

I do feel sorry for those who would not get a chance to experience the amazing convenience and the variety of the website (if this ban gets the green light). I feel disappointed in the UK for adopting this stance. 

 

External Link/Members Only

[Punter121212]

I have never bought sex in my life... never ever ever.

I do have a habit of buying someones time which strange as it sounds normally leads to sex but ive always put that down to me being such a handsome chap. 

If changes in the law meant sites like AW had to change thats what they would do ... change. I cant see them disappearing and as long as punters can read between the lines and see behind the winks such changes shouldn't effect punting too much.

[Niggledebits]

Mental if it happens. Would only force girls back onto the streets.

Ask yourself though, police can’t even deal with drugs, violent crime and robbery. What chance have they got adding this to their workload.

The only way is if they give out heavy fines to those availing themselves of escort services.  Then just like speed cameras it becomes a key revenue stream.

Hope we haven’t got aspiring politicians on here😳

[Dicky]

I have never bought sex in my life... never ever ever.

I do have a habit of buying someones time which strange as it sounds normally leads to sex but ive always put that down to me being such a handsome chap. 

If changes in the law meant sites like AW had to change thats what they would do ... change. I cant see them disappearing and as long as punters can read between the lines and see behind the winks such changes shouldn't effect punting too much.

Actually it will. It will go the American way where buying sex (or time) is expensive, dangerous and fraught with risky shit (pay deposits, disclose real identities to hookers etc to reduce the risk of undercover police rumbling escorts by proving that its actually sex being sold, not time).

[shagmore]

The fucking government should concentrate on more important issues, instead of messing around with the oldest profession on the planet.

I think there would be quite  a few MPS that don't agree with the end of this

[ShadowProclamation]

Hasn't the Government got enough to worry about with Brexit? Plus, all the other day to day political issues which are being neglected. For many escorts, providing services is their only means of income. Does the Government want higher unemployment and more people claiming benefits? A bleak point to make, but watch the male suicide rate increase still further, without being able to pay for sex legally. As if the Government can take the moral high ground. I thought there was an ongoing investigation into child abuse. One aspect of this was an investigation into abuse by politicians. Anyone heard anything about this recently? Thank God for Brexit eh, Mrs May!

[JamesKW]

The fucking government should concentrate on more important issues, instead of messing around with the oldest profession on the planet.

I think there would be quite  a few MPS that don't agree with the end of this

Yes,so it pays to keep them bogged down with Brexit for a few years.In the era of MeTo even if they don't agree personally with the Scandanavian model, from a moral point of view it will make them look good to women voters.Trump was on a win win because by closing Craigs list etc it forces punters back to Casinos to obtain sex and  he takes the moral high ground.

[JamesFD]

The campaign is growing - see the recent items in the Mail highlighting what a disaster the legal red light area in Leeds is. They've even linked it to paedophilia. It's one of those subjects where it's impossible to have a reasoned debate because one side cannot afford to take part & risk being identified.

[Ali Katt]

Nothing like alienating your core voting base: people on middle incomes. If it's some vain attempt to attract those that usually vote Labour and are on the feminist side it is going to fail miserably.

[Jeff_withpetersen]

It wouldn't stop people seeing WGs they already know ... the old 'oh, yes, here I am to buy this item off you for £120 even though it's worth a quid ... and oh look, you have an irresistable desire to make love to me and nobody can prove otherwise' thing.

But yes it'd definitely stop me 'soliciting online' via AW or similar. Can't believe the Tories are giving serious thought to this sort of thing - what could be more in keeping with conservative principles than two adults doing something that they both consent to, in privacy, without state interference?

[magnetico]

I have never bought sex in my life... never ever ever.

I do have a habit of buying someones time which strange as it sounds normally leads to sex but ive always put that down to me being such a handsome chap. 

If changes in the law meant sites like AW had to change thats what they would do ... change. I cant see them disappearing and as long as punters can read between the lines and see behind the winks such changes shouldn't effect punting too much.

That's wishful thinking, look at Northern Ireland or the USA, punting over there is very difficult and dangerous

[latecomer]

That's wishful thinking, look at Northern Ireland or the USA, punting over there is very difficult and dangerous

I don't know.  What it is like in Northern Ireland - do the police really crack down on sex workers?  Here in England, as another contributor has stated above, they're completely swamped by the level of real crime.  There are brothels open all over the country which everyone knows about but presumably the police never touch?  This is a completely mad government proposal but it's typical of the disconnect between the ruling elite and normal people.

[magnetico]

I don't know.  What it is like in Northern Ireland - do the police really crack down on sex workers? 

Making it illegal made the whole thing underground, there's hardly any prossies from NI on AW, and the NI section on UKP is totally dead.
The NI punters probably have to find a druggie on the side of the motorway if they want a shag.

[snaitram99]

Wasn't there a Home Office Report some years ago called "Paying the Price". Can't remember what it recommended but it seemed to get quietly forgotten about.

Also, didn't the legalisation of gay sex establish the principle that what consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business?

[jackdaw]

Hasn't the Government got enough to worry about with Brexit?

I knew there was a reason I voted out. I was beginning to think I’d made a mistake...

I suppose if it got to point if govt made punting illegal, I might just pack in.

And if I did carry on, anybody expecting to catch me having sex with a WG would need a very high speed camera these days...such is the decline of my shagging stamina.

[Discord]

This sounds like it would be dreadful if it came to pass.  Hopefully nothing comes of it.  As others have said the police are struggling massively as it is so this would only give them more of a workload.  Having said that maybe it would actually benefit them (the police) as perhaps arresting punters or service providers would be easy compared to much of their other work.  They might end up putting more effort into spoiling our fun than they would looking into more important stuff like robberies etc just to improve their crime solving statistics. 

[DragonAgeInquisition]

Yes I agree with discord...

 - Police will create and chase cases which are easily able to be closed for the sake of statistics.

I agree with many others who have stated...

 - Punting would become more risky, dangerous and require huge amounts of effort with the closure of sited like awork and criminalising the act of buying sex.

I do wonder if one work around would be for working girls to create social media pages (twitter, instagram etc) and have meets arranged via direct messaging where the working girl could provide her phone number. If no sexual services are advertised and a meet for "one hour on sat 15th for £150" is arrranged via text/call there really should be enough reasonable doubt.

I mean the government think it logical to shut down sites advertising services. I wonder how well they would do shutting down giants of social media...

Safety for the working girl would be an issue with the lack of a reliable feedback system. I guess one way around this could be be to create a bogus social media account linked to a punt phone. The girl could follow the user back with a brief post (not sure how twitter works) given the punt was a good one. Any future girls would be able to via how many followers the potential punter has...the more the better.

But anyway I maybe I am going mad overthinking this. Either way i will try and have as much meets as possible before the spring and then possible more or none thereafter depending on where this bullshit takes us. 

 

[Trex]

Yes I agree with discord...

 - Police will create and chase cases which are easily able to be closed for the sake of statistics.

I agree with many others who have stated...

 - Punting would become more risky, dangerous and require huge amounts of effort with the closure of sited like awork and criminalising the act of buying sex.

I do wonder if one work around would be for working girls to create social media pages (twitter, instagram etc) and have meets arranged via direct messaging where the working girl could provide her phone number. If no sexual services are advertised and a meet for "one hour on sat 15th for £150" is arrranged via text/call there really should be enough reasonable doubt.

I mean the government think it logical to shut down sites advertising services. I wonder how well they would do shutting down giants of social media...

Safety for the working girl would be an issue with the lack of a reliable feedback system. I guess one way around this could be be to create a bogus social media account linked to a punt phone. The girl could follow the user back with a brief post (not sure how twitter works) given the punt was a good one. Any future girls would be able to via how many followers the potential punter has...the more the better.

But anyway I maybe I am going mad overthinking this. Either way i will try and have as much meets as possible before the spring and then possible more or none thereafter depending on where this bullshit takes us. 

 

Adultwork won't be shut down because they do other services like webcam, phone chat etc.

if the government decided to ban escort service then what happens to this site UKpunting are they going to shut this site.

My opinion the government won't ban it.

[jbanks]

Its just the career politicians trying to boost themselves, nothing will come of it.
 Plus I woudn't be surprised if half male MP's have used adultwork anyway.

[Ali Katt]

Its just the career politicians trying to boost themselves, nothing will come of it.
Plus I woudn't be surprised if half male MP's have used adultwork anyway.

I think they're more into Birchplace.

[sharpshoes78]

Simple
It goes to the DARK WEB
Tor and onion network
Less safe for us and the girls

[magnetico]

Tor and onion network

lol.. never happened in Northern Ireland / USA / nordic countries 

[Home Alone]

Hi All,

After watching live updates of PMQs this lunchtime I was quite shocked to read the following (link to full article at bottom)...

"A Home Office review of sex work could provide evidence to justify law banning buying sex"
"May says the Home Office has provided funds for a study into sex work in England and Wales. An evidence base is vital before the law changes. This review will be concluded next spring"

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Don't forget this government has form for commissioning reviews and then kicking them into the long grass. There are several issues of more interest to voters than this - e.g. how to pay for residential care for older and disabled people. If I remember rightly, that's on its second review since the Conservatives got back in power in 2010.

[Ali Katt]

I wouldn't worry too much about this. Don't forget this government has form for commissioning reviews and then kicking them into the long grass. There are several issues of more interest to voters than this - e.g. how to pay for residential care for older and disabled people. If I remember rightly, that's on its second review since the Conservatives got back in power in 2010.

Yep. This bill has been proposed since the Blair years.

[MilleMiglia]

Making it illegal made the whole thing underground, there's hardly any prossies from NI on AW, and the NI section on UKP is totally dead.
The NI punters probably have to find a druggie on the side of the motorway if they want a shag.

The NI massage reviews here make depressing reading - those guys are hard done by.

[JamesKW]

Making it illegal made the whole thing underground, there's hardly any prossies from NI on AW, and the NI section on UKP is totally dead.
The NI punters probably have to find a druggie on the side of the motorway if they want a shag.

I am guessing it will become more brothel based again or street workers.Street work will be hard for punters to avoid prosecution nowdays as there are CCTV cameras on every corner recording number plates.Punters will need to lurk around hotel bars or Casinos.Or there will be an increase in swingers parties.

[Squire Haggard]

The NI massage reviews here make depressing reading - those guys are hard done by.

I hope that the whole site does not make for depressing reading in the future. We are nearly surrounded by countries that have recently adopted the Sex Buyer Law.

Sweden
Norway
Iceland
June 1 2015 Northern Ireland
April 2016 France
Mar  2017  Ireland


This article was written before Ireland introduced the Sex Buyer Law.

External Link/Members Only

[LLPunting]

I'd look forward to the coded ads that would appear on Ebay and Amazon. 
There'd be a serious up-tick in cheap visiting massage ads at 20 ph on Gumtree.  Photos send by WhatsApp and the like.  Punting really would be a lottery, more so than SA and CL are now.  Services and charges discussed once inside the private room.  Lots more passing hotel trade.

[the fitter]

Making it illegal made the whole thing underground, there's hardly any prossies from NI on AW, and the NI section on UKP is totally dead.
The NI punters probably have to find a druggie on the side of the motorway if they want a shag.

The N.I. section of UKP, never was great, but it has picked up lately.

[Jimmyredcab]

Ask yourself though, police can’t even deal with drugs, violent crime and robbery. What chance have they got adding this to their workload.

They can't even stop drivers using their mobile phones, this would be yet another law that can't be enforced, brothels would probably suffer but Indies would carry on as normal. 

[S.X. MacHine]

The situation in Northern Ireland may be a template for how outlawing sex work in England might operate in practice.
So far as I can gather, the Northern Irish police have not been enforcing the law except in a couple of cases where potential punters acted egregiously, justifying their inaction on the grounds of 'evidential difficulties'. They are correct, of course. The escort's testimony would be a great help to the prosecutors in securing a conviction but, of course, why would the girl want to do that?
In any case, the police forces in every part of the UK are under cost pressures. If Parliament saw fit to invent a new crime, it would have to make funding available to the police and prosecutors to apprehend the new class of criminals. Is this likely?
Sweden introduced their 'model' years ago, but if you Google 'escorts Sweden' you'll find hundreds listed. Also, the number of dodgy Thai massage parlours have actually increased. The only 'success' of the Swedish model has been to take more girls off the street, an area of prostitution which has been on an historic decline in any case in the UK.
So, even if they do ban prostitution here, I shall not be hanging up my condom just yet. The industry will find new, discrete, ways of working; and so shall I.

[JamesKW]

They can't even stop drivers using their mobile phones, this would be yet another law that can't be enforced, brothels would probably suffer but Indies would carry on as normal. 

For street prostitution it will just be a case of CCTV issuing a penalty notice for cars parking up and you having to appeal it (or explain why you were in the area).Some WGs will work at swingers parties (many use a few anyway) others work at fetish events,nightclubs etc.

[HoraceWimp$9]

The law in NI changed a couple of years back - to follow "the Swedish Model".
There was a campaign to have the new law blocked - but we have quite a 'conservative' set of politicians.

After a brief drop off the numbers of WGs in Belfast quickly returned to their normal levels.
In fact they are probably ahead of what they were.

Advertising sites in Ireland (North and South) are largely dominated by Escort-Ireland.com
There is usually a decent choice there and in-line reviews (although the site does moderate them unlike here)

[WhackDaddy]

Of course AW could take its site to the dark web? 

[Lord Gwyn]

Personally I just think it's another attempt to restrict freedom. This Government would love to restrict our right to choose on a whole range of issues. I think we should put this to a Referendum - that always sorts things out.

[TailSeeker]

Adultwork won't be shut down because they do other services like webcam, phone chat etc.

if the government decided to ban escort service then what happens to this site UKpunting are they going to shut this site.

My opinion the government won't ban it.

AW might shut down, or just eliminate the escort option. If either happens, switter will probably become popular. We'll have to come up with our own lingo to describe services.

My concern would be for UKP, as reviews sites in the US were shut down after the new laws came in. Which would be a bloody shame. SAAFE, NUM, and other resources for escorts would disappear as well.

Just be a mess all around. I'm hopeful it won't happen, it's been banded around before, but hasn't gained traction. Hopefully this time will be the same, just a lot of noise to distract from Brexit.

[unclepokey]

We already have law that criminalises the punter who pays an individual who is subject to unwanted third party influence to provide the sexual service concerned.
So far the number of punters who have felt the effect of this law may be counted on the fingers of almost a single hand. There are two reasons for this. Not only does PC Plod have totally inadequate resource to enforce such legislation but, rather crucially, if PC Plod are aware of sex slave workers operating in their area, why for fuck's sake have they not already taken advantage of yet other existing legislation to deal with that issue?
I await with interest any draft legislation to be offered by the Hon. Prat concerned . I'm troubled not a bit by what he says.

Uncle Pokey

[Prestige Escorts]

Wasn't there a Home Office Report some years ago called "Paying the Price". Can't remember what it recommended but it seemed to get quietly forgotten about.

Also, didn't the legalisation of gay sex establish the principle that what consenting adults do in private is nobody else's business?

Paying the Price They did back in 2004 followed by a Coordinated Prostitution Strategy  and a Summary responses to Paying the Price  in 2006

[Ali Katt]

They can't even stop drivers using their mobile phones, this would be yet another law that can't be enforced, brothels would probably suffer but Indies would carry on as normal. 

Let's go one step further they can't even prevent moped gangs. There was time when the police were there to uphold laws, now they are there to effectively be a sort of government representative and mouthpiece. That said we still get hero coppers and a lot of dross.

[snaitram99]

Paying the Price They did back in 2004 followed by a Coordinated Prostitution Strategy  and a Summary responses to Paying the Price  in 2006

Can anybody remember what the result was? It seemed to get quietly forgotten about.

[Home Alone]

If Parliament saw fit to invent a new crime, it would have to make funding available to the police and prosecutors to apprehend the new class of criminals. Is this likely?

Would it have to, S.X.M? Surely most of the Chief Constables in England and Wales are already complaining about having to do more with fewer resources.

[Laudanum]

Most Police forces won't even investigate burglaries (although if you're rude to someone on Twitter, you're nicked son). I can't imagine they'd have the resources (or the will) to bother with nicking punters.

Hope I'm right.

[Ali Katt]

Most Police forces won't even investigate burglaries (although if you're rude to someone on Twitter, you're nicked son). I can't imagine they'd have the resources (or the will) to bother with nicking punters.

Hope I'm right.

They can't even stop street walkers and soliciting which is illegal.

[smiths]

The situation in Northern Ireland may be a template for how outlawing sex work in England might operate in practice.
So far as I can gather, the Northern Irish police have not been enforcing the law except in a couple of cases where potential punters acted egregiously, justifying their inaction on the grounds of 'evidential difficulties'. They are correct, of course. The escort's testimony would be a great help to the prosecutors in securing a conviction but, of course, why would the girl want to do that?
In any case, the police forces in every part of the UK are under cost pressures. If Parliament saw fit to invent a new crime, it would have to make funding available to the police and prosecutors to apprehend the new class of criminals. Is this likely?
Sweden introduced their 'model' years ago, but if you Google 'escorts Sweden' you'll find hundreds listed. Also, the number of dodgy Thai massage parlours have actually increased. The only 'success' of the Swedish model has been to take more girls off the street, an area of prostitution which has been on an historic decline in any case in the UK.
So, even if they do ban prostitution here, I shall not be hanging up my condom just yet. The industry will find new, discrete, ways of working; and so shall I.

No the police wont be given more resources in terms of manpower or money. The idea of a law that criminalises ALL punters here would primarily be the deterrent/fear factor of putting some punters off which doesn't cost much, and I imagine would work with some punters thinking the risk wasn't worth the reward.

I then imagine some top cops will do purges on easy targets like brothels, other top cops wont support a law where the punter is punting with an off-street WG. Having a law and it being enforced can be two entirely different things, however having a law that can be wheeled out when it suits the police is bad news for punters and WGs.

In London street prostitution is thriving in some areas and has even began in new areas. Prostitution will ALWAYS find a way unless with were all under 24/7 survellience,.

[smiths]

They can't even stop street walkers and soliciting which is illegal.

Indeed or close brothels, in both cases because the top cops choose to allow them to operate. Now a street walker is most certainly more of a nuisance than an off-street WG in many cases so what has happened with the street scene and brothels should tell punters what the future is likely to look like if we had the Nordic model. Maybe the police raiding more brothels and nicking more street WGs and their punters as they are easy nicks. Easy nicks are cheap, the top cops unless maybe religious twats with a moral objection to prostitution wont have the resources to nick off/street WGs punters enmasse, or I would guess in some cases the interest in doing so.

In reality there are already enough laws to nick pimps and kerb crawlers/street WGs.

[workinallweek]

 Wonder if anyone has calculated the money the government make from this hobby ?
Think about the hotel rooms booked
The gifts purchased
The tax paid
The overtime worked to pay for the deed
Fuel used to go to a meeting
Train fares
Meals ,theatre trips
etc etc

shut one industry and it has a knock on effect .